So as I am a Buffalo Bills fan, the only team to lose four Super Bowls in a row, that makes me and my fellow losers among the most romantic sports fans in the world. I'll take it. Go Bills!
As someone born and raised in Buffalo, I see what you are saying about the romance, but with that comes some robust ptsd and related angst during games (at least for me 😂)
I have one big glaring counter example: the Dallas Cowboys.
There is zero romance in being a Cowboys fan despite not having won the last 30 years.
Yes, I agree that 30 years ago is fairly recent, but the first super bowl was only 58 years ago. No amount of time will ever make cheering for the Cowboys romantic.
The biggest bummer for me (admittedly, a lifelong BIlls fan), is the overexposure of Mahomes, Kelce, and now even Andy Reid. Tom Brady (let alone Belichick) was not on every other television commercial aired during games when the Patriots were winning. (And make no mistake, I have no love for the Patriots :-). Having to see a barrage of State Farm ads with the same guys who are on TV during the "un-advertisement" time just gets... cloying (nauseating?). And it seems like it has to add to the dislike of the Chiefs, independent of them winning and being a really really good team.
Idk, I think Brady was on TV just as much as Mahomes is. Not so with Belichick because he is an introvert and a misanthrope and probably has problems with authority. Society has never really known what to do with people like that, even when they’re public figures. That is why I like Belichick despite hating the Patriots. He is interesting.
different times....my son in law wasn't in the news much either but that's because of social media....people have to create content to stay relavent, i.e. get clicks and likes, and reaching for the current stars-in all genres-is the way to do it...and they do...as evidenced here on this platform...as well as all...
As a Chiefs fan since 1990, I know all about suffering as a fan. From the Marty years where they were good but always got beat in the playoffs, to the years after when they were mostly awful (and still always got beat in the playoffs), before hitting rock bottom in their horrific 2012 season AKA the worst season in NFL history (I wrote about that one in my Substack Chiefs Chronicles).
Like people in bad relationships often do, I made excuses for them. People would ask why I stuck with them. I would always say, “Sure it’s bad now but they’re going to turn it around soon. When they do all of this will be worth it!” I may have even believed it.
Even though the Chiefs have been winning since Andy Reid arrived in 2013 (and winning big since Patrick Mahomes became the starter in 2018), I still have football PTSD. It was cultivated during all the years of not knowing how they’d either underachieve during any given regular season or snatch playoffs defeat from the jaws of victory, but knowing they’d do it somehow.
Now they are a dynasty on the verge of a possible Three-Peat (your check is not in the mail, Mr. Riley). They’ve won so much that 99% of non-Chiefs fans hate them. Sometimes my non-Chiefs fan friends (99% of my friends) get a little combative when we talk football and officiating, but I understand where they’re coming from- I’ve been there.
I know I’m watching something they’ll most likely never do again, so I’m trying to enjoy it as much as I can. Eventually, they will fall and I’ll go back to being a suffering fan (hopefully not long-suffering). At least then I’ll have all of the memories from the Golden Era of Chiefs Football that we’re all experiencing now.
BTW, I completely agree with you about how winning it all changes a fan’s mindset. Back in the bad years, a Super Bowl (impossible as it seemed) was all I wanted. Now they’ve won it multiple times and all I want is MORE. I want ALL THE WINS. You nailed it!
I am a Chiefs fan. Please don’t throw anything. I have been one since my grandpa took me to my first game in 1966 at old Municipal Stadium. We tied with the Patriots that day and after the game we walked down the hill to Arthur Bryant’s BBQ and split a brisket sandwich and fries. I was hooked. I was a fan for the first Super Bowl, when KC lost to GB. And three years later when we smoked the heavily-favored Vikings in SB IV. The last game played by the AFL before the merger. I was proud to be the team of the founder of the AFL, and the guy who invented and named the Super Bowl. I was there for the “longest game” on Christmas Day, 1971 vs Miami. The last game before Arrowhead opened.
But then came 50 years and 22 days in the wilderness. My “romantic” period. A few terrible teams, but mostly a team good enough to break your heart. The closest we got in 50 years was with a geriatric Joe Montana getting concussed by Bruce Smith in Buffalo in the AFC championship. Mostly we were bounced in the first round of the playoffs.
So yeah, I know you hate us. I can tell you that I will ride this wave until it inevitably crashes onto the shore. I will savor every moment.
A great perspective on both sides of the coin, Duane. Well written. (And no, I'm not a Chiefs fan. In fact, my team is one of the four that has never even been to the Super Bowl.)
I'm not a San Diego fan, but I felt outraged by the Chargers' move to LA. I can't say why, other than it just felt worse than moves across the country, like the Rams from Cleveland to LA to St. Louis. Do you feel the move was justified? And do you remain a fan?
I also should add, the Rams never belonged in STL. That was a boneheaded move by a bad owner, and that city signed a terrible deal. I have no sympathy for STL. For SD, 60 years of support, yes.
No, the move wasn't justified. But, the Spanos family wasn't completely 100% to blame. The city did let Qualcomm Stadium decay, that was a problem. However, the two sides discussed a stadium over 10 years time. The very first proposal, was the best, in retrospect. Dean Spanos wanted the acreage that the stadium sat on, for FREE. He would build the stadium out of his pocket, the city kicks in the other aspects of such a project. There were a multitude of ideas past that.
The final idea, put this up for a vote, build near Petco Park, downtown. There would be a major hotel tax increase. The problem is, a 2/3rd majority was needed to raise the tax. That wasn't going to happen, and the hoteliers made sure it didn't. The vote was a sham (51% approval, the simple majority didn't pass it) Spanos was planning to leave as soon as he saw the stadium rising in LA. He figured that market was his, all along. Other ideas were floated...but by then, the Chargers were a BAD team and attendance fell with the constant threat of relocation. I am not a native, I am from Chicago and remain a Bears fan. Easy for me to leave the Chargers in the gutter. TV ratings for the Chargers are still better in San Diego than LA, when you level the markets. People here have trouble letting go.
However, the market used to be NFL First and Last. The Padres were an afterthought. It was a perfect Super Bowl host city. The San Diego market deserves an NFL team, but there is no stadium. The SDSU Aztecs built a 35K stadium on the Qualcomm site, the university now has ownership of that land. An NFL quality stadium is needed. There's no way that will happen with public money.
I didn't know that 10-year history; what a shame that they didn't take that original proposal. With all the cities shelling out megabucks to build stadia, having a willing owner would seem to be the way to go. Sounds like the SD city leaders were shortsighted.
And it looks like no one won. When I heard the Chargers and Rams were going to share a stadium, my thought was that NO one in LA would adopt the Chargers as their team. Even after— what, 20 years in St. Louis?— I always thought of the Rams as the LA Rams. I mean, they had I think 50 years in LA. Maybe someday something unexpected will make it possible for the Chargers to move back to SD.
As for myself, the rest of the family were White Sox fans, but I grew up a Cubs/Blackhawks/Bulls fan. Not sure why, but I was never a Bears fan. I just didn't have an NFL team. I rooted for quarterbacks. Bart Starr, Fran Tarkington, just never a team. But I was living in Jacksonville when the Jaguars were awarded as the 30th franchise, and that became my team, and remains my team, even though I now live in the Southwest. I think fandom relies on teams staying put, and so, even though the odds are against them staying in Jax, I would rather they do than to move to where I live now. And I hope the Chargers return home someday.
The Chargers might only come back under 2 circumstances: The Spanos Family sells the team. Some private entity builds an NFL quality stadium. Both are unlikely. My Bears will win a Super Bowl, first.
This is undeniably true. As one who suffered through my Cubs 1969 collapse, the way that MLB screwed us over in 1984, and so on, not winning a World Series for over a hundred years (or even making it TO the World Series in this Boomer's lifetime) were what it meant to be a Cubs fan. And so, we finally won the World Series, and guess what? I remember the years we came close, but I can't remember the year that we finally won it.
I wonder if we're talking about the same thing. We might be, but it's unclear from your comment. I'M talking about the fact that MLB took away our right to have three of the five games at Wrigley. Home field advantage was supposed to be ours that year. But it was about the money, and so they told us that, lacking lights, we could only have two games. Tradition be damned.
EDIT: So your comment got me thinking about something that I have "known" for 40 years. But I recognize that memory is not infallible. So I did research, and dayumn if I didn't learn I was wrong. At least wrong about what happened. You're right, we did NOT have a claim on HFA for the LCS that year. MLB baseball did NOT screw us over.
Yes, we are simultaneously discussing the 1984 FAIL and the 2016 W. Interesting you found BCB. I have participated on that blog for 20 years, I know Al. For whatever reason, the foggy history thinks we were screwed out of home field. The Cubs were not. I think the tragic (baseball-wise, anyway) history thinks Game 5 was to be played back in Chicago, but it wasn't. I'm surprised I didn't comment in the thread. I was at those 3 games. Worst sporting experience of my life. To this day, I can't stand the Padres.
I'm an NL fan, from back in the day when that actually meant something, and I pretty much always rooted for the NL team in the World Series every year. But not 1984. My only disappointment that year was that the Tigers took five games to end SD's dream.
I always tell my kids that “losing is what makes winning fun”. It gives winning meaning and depth. As I’ve gotten older though, the voracity with which I follow my lifelong teams during long periods of misery has decreased significantly. Because in order for my first point to hold true, there has to be some winning to enjoy. If not, I just can’t do it to myself. It takes a physical and mental toll to care so much, and allow one’s self to be so disappointed. I’m not talking about only watching when a team is dominant, but I’m a Chicago Bulls fan. That franchise has been committing organizational malpractice for at least a decade, and promoting Jim Boylen without a coaching search, then re-signing him after he proved to be no better than a high school gym teacher (no offense to HSGTs) was a signal to me that I couldn’t allow myself to care so much when the org itself obviously didn’t. They signed free agents to fill seats, not to build a cohesive team (Rajon Rondo, Dewayne Wade), BUT - fortunately - made their incompetence (or financial priorities) super transparent, at least to me. It made it easier to care less. Luckily for me as a Chicagoan, I was NOT also raised a Bears fan, but I’m close enough to notice that poor fanbase’s abject misery. I can’t tell if that is from organizational incompetence, bad economic decisions, bad personnel decisions (coaches/gms), desperation or a Tsunami that gathered each of them in her relentless, rising current and leveled Chicago football with the resultant, depressing stew.
TLDR: Losing is what makes winning feel so fucking amazing. But at some point, your personal physical and mental wellbeing has to be prioritized over your desire to appear a “die-hard”.
lol I knew you were from Boston before I even read this. I bet losing for five years after 20 years of dominance feels “romantic”. Try losing for 35 with no rings ever! NOT AS ROMANTIC!
This was such a fantastic read! It reminded me of the social psychological theory of ‘fusion.’ This idea that peoples personalities ‘fuse’ with each other, or become closer to one unit/hive mind, when they experience extreme shared suffering. Especially when that suffering is towards a common goal.
There’s a couple psych investigations showing that sports fans from historically losing teams, feel that their team is more integral to their identity. A similar effect can be seen in the military, where the intense training periods full of shared pain and suffering, creates extremely bonded partnerships.
I feel a similar way. Sports, amongst other things, is a TV Drama. As long as the storylines don't feel repetitive, we want to see the best characters over and over again. The storyline of trying to beat the big-bad empire is what a lot of the most popular stories are about and is no different in sports. Also, when the Chiefs do finally get beat in the playoffs (weather this year or later) it will be all the more satisfying. A story with good protagonist and antagonist aren't compelling, but dynasties are great at both.
As a Cleveland Indians fan (yes, we all hate the name Guardians with a passion), a team that has not won in my 72 years, and agonizingly lost the World Series in extra innings of the 7th game TWICE, I believe you are confusing romance with the cruelest form of heartbreak.
So as I am a Buffalo Bills fan, the only team to lose four Super Bowls in a row, that makes me and my fellow losers among the most romantic sports fans in the world. I'll take it. Go Bills!
As someone born and raised in Buffalo, I see what you are saying about the romance, but with that comes some robust ptsd and related angst during games (at least for me 😂)
Agreed. I've resigned myself to the fact that the Bills are a heartbreak factory.
I have one big glaring counter example: the Dallas Cowboys.
There is zero romance in being a Cowboys fan despite not having won the last 30 years.
Yes, I agree that 30 years ago is fairly recent, but the first super bowl was only 58 years ago. No amount of time will ever make cheering for the Cowboys romantic.
lol....well said
Yeah sure but can the Bills just win the Super Bowl please lol
The biggest bummer for me (admittedly, a lifelong BIlls fan), is the overexposure of Mahomes, Kelce, and now even Andy Reid. Tom Brady (let alone Belichick) was not on every other television commercial aired during games when the Patriots were winning. (And make no mistake, I have no love for the Patriots :-). Having to see a barrage of State Farm ads with the same guys who are on TV during the "un-advertisement" time just gets... cloying (nauseating?). And it seems like it has to add to the dislike of the Chiefs, independent of them winning and being a really really good team.
Idk, I think Brady was on TV just as much as Mahomes is. Not so with Belichick because he is an introvert and a misanthrope and probably has problems with authority. Society has never really known what to do with people like that, even when they’re public figures. That is why I like Belichick despite hating the Patriots. He is interesting.
different times....my son in law wasn't in the news much either but that's because of social media....people have to create content to stay relavent, i.e. get clicks and likes, and reaching for the current stars-in all genres-is the way to do it...and they do...as evidenced here on this platform...as well as all...
As a Chiefs fan since 1990, I know all about suffering as a fan. From the Marty years where they were good but always got beat in the playoffs, to the years after when they were mostly awful (and still always got beat in the playoffs), before hitting rock bottom in their horrific 2012 season AKA the worst season in NFL history (I wrote about that one in my Substack Chiefs Chronicles).
Like people in bad relationships often do, I made excuses for them. People would ask why I stuck with them. I would always say, “Sure it’s bad now but they’re going to turn it around soon. When they do all of this will be worth it!” I may have even believed it.
Even though the Chiefs have been winning since Andy Reid arrived in 2013 (and winning big since Patrick Mahomes became the starter in 2018), I still have football PTSD. It was cultivated during all the years of not knowing how they’d either underachieve during any given regular season or snatch playoffs defeat from the jaws of victory, but knowing they’d do it somehow.
Now they are a dynasty on the verge of a possible Three-Peat (your check is not in the mail, Mr. Riley). They’ve won so much that 99% of non-Chiefs fans hate them. Sometimes my non-Chiefs fan friends (99% of my friends) get a little combative when we talk football and officiating, but I understand where they’re coming from- I’ve been there.
I know I’m watching something they’ll most likely never do again, so I’m trying to enjoy it as much as I can. Eventually, they will fall and I’ll go back to being a suffering fan (hopefully not long-suffering). At least then I’ll have all of the memories from the Golden Era of Chiefs Football that we’re all experiencing now.
BTW, I completely agree with you about how winning it all changes a fan’s mindset. Back in the bad years, a Super Bowl (impossible as it seemed) was all I wanted. Now they’ve won it multiple times and all I want is MORE. I want ALL THE WINS. You nailed it!
I am a Chiefs fan. Please don’t throw anything. I have been one since my grandpa took me to my first game in 1966 at old Municipal Stadium. We tied with the Patriots that day and after the game we walked down the hill to Arthur Bryant’s BBQ and split a brisket sandwich and fries. I was hooked. I was a fan for the first Super Bowl, when KC lost to GB. And three years later when we smoked the heavily-favored Vikings in SB IV. The last game played by the AFL before the merger. I was proud to be the team of the founder of the AFL, and the guy who invented and named the Super Bowl. I was there for the “longest game” on Christmas Day, 1971 vs Miami. The last game before Arrowhead opened.
But then came 50 years and 22 days in the wilderness. My “romantic” period. A few terrible teams, but mostly a team good enough to break your heart. The closest we got in 50 years was with a geriatric Joe Montana getting concussed by Bruce Smith in Buffalo in the AFC championship. Mostly we were bounced in the first round of the playoffs.
So yeah, I know you hate us. I can tell you that I will ride this wave until it inevitably crashes onto the shore. I will savor every moment.
It is much better to be hated than pitied.
Go Chiefs!
Enjoy yourself until it's done.
A great perspective on both sides of the coin, Duane. Well written. (And no, I'm not a Chiefs fan. In fact, my team is one of the four that has never even been to the Super Bowl.)
At least you didn't lose your team, like San Diego Chargers fans.
I'm not a San Diego fan, but I felt outraged by the Chargers' move to LA. I can't say why, other than it just felt worse than moves across the country, like the Rams from Cleveland to LA to St. Louis. Do you feel the move was justified? And do you remain a fan?
I also should add, the Rams never belonged in STL. That was a boneheaded move by a bad owner, and that city signed a terrible deal. I have no sympathy for STL. For SD, 60 years of support, yes.
No, the move wasn't justified. But, the Spanos family wasn't completely 100% to blame. The city did let Qualcomm Stadium decay, that was a problem. However, the two sides discussed a stadium over 10 years time. The very first proposal, was the best, in retrospect. Dean Spanos wanted the acreage that the stadium sat on, for FREE. He would build the stadium out of his pocket, the city kicks in the other aspects of such a project. There were a multitude of ideas past that.
The final idea, put this up for a vote, build near Petco Park, downtown. There would be a major hotel tax increase. The problem is, a 2/3rd majority was needed to raise the tax. That wasn't going to happen, and the hoteliers made sure it didn't. The vote was a sham (51% approval, the simple majority didn't pass it) Spanos was planning to leave as soon as he saw the stadium rising in LA. He figured that market was his, all along. Other ideas were floated...but by then, the Chargers were a BAD team and attendance fell with the constant threat of relocation. I am not a native, I am from Chicago and remain a Bears fan. Easy for me to leave the Chargers in the gutter. TV ratings for the Chargers are still better in San Diego than LA, when you level the markets. People here have trouble letting go.
However, the market used to be NFL First and Last. The Padres were an afterthought. It was a perfect Super Bowl host city. The San Diego market deserves an NFL team, but there is no stadium. The SDSU Aztecs built a 35K stadium on the Qualcomm site, the university now has ownership of that land. An NFL quality stadium is needed. There's no way that will happen with public money.
I didn't know that 10-year history; what a shame that they didn't take that original proposal. With all the cities shelling out megabucks to build stadia, having a willing owner would seem to be the way to go. Sounds like the SD city leaders were shortsighted.
And it looks like no one won. When I heard the Chargers and Rams were going to share a stadium, my thought was that NO one in LA would adopt the Chargers as their team. Even after— what, 20 years in St. Louis?— I always thought of the Rams as the LA Rams. I mean, they had I think 50 years in LA. Maybe someday something unexpected will make it possible for the Chargers to move back to SD.
As for myself, the rest of the family were White Sox fans, but I grew up a Cubs/Blackhawks/Bulls fan. Not sure why, but I was never a Bears fan. I just didn't have an NFL team. I rooted for quarterbacks. Bart Starr, Fran Tarkington, just never a team. But I was living in Jacksonville when the Jaguars were awarded as the 30th franchise, and that became my team, and remains my team, even though I now live in the Southwest. I think fandom relies on teams staying put, and so, even though the odds are against them staying in Jax, I would rather they do than to move to where I live now. And I hope the Chargers return home someday.
The Chargers might only come back under 2 circumstances: The Spanos Family sells the team. Some private entity builds an NFL quality stadium. Both are unlikely. My Bears will win a Super Bowl, first.
This is undeniably true. As one who suffered through my Cubs 1969 collapse, the way that MLB screwed us over in 1984, and so on, not winning a World Series for over a hundred years (or even making it TO the World Series in this Boomer's lifetime) were what it meant to be a Cubs fan. And so, we finally won the World Series, and guess what? I remember the years we came close, but I can't remember the year that we finally won it.
As an Indians fan, I remember it like yesterday, and get sick every time I think about it.
I'm sorry it was you guys. I wish it had been the Yankees or the White Sox.
I'm a Cubs fan, we were not screwed over by MLB. That is a fallacy. Blame it on Steve Garvey and Leon Durham. I was at the games in San Diego.
I wonder if we're talking about the same thing. We might be, but it's unclear from your comment. I'M talking about the fact that MLB took away our right to have three of the five games at Wrigley. Home field advantage was supposed to be ours that year. But it was about the money, and so they told us that, lacking lights, we could only have two games. Tradition be damned.
EDIT: So your comment got me thinking about something that I have "known" for 40 years. But I recognize that memory is not infallible. So I did research, and dayumn if I didn't learn I was wrong. At least wrong about what happened. You're right, we did NOT have a claim on HFA for the LCS that year. MLB baseball did NOT screw us over.
However, it IS the fault of MLB that so many of us believe that, because they DID plan to screw us over IF we had won Game 5 in San Diego. Best article I found was this: https://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2023/10/16/23918207/cubs-1984-nlcs-home-date-did-not-lose-no-no-no-no
Thank you for forcing me to revisit the history.
Yes, we are simultaneously discussing the 1984 FAIL and the 2016 W. Interesting you found BCB. I have participated on that blog for 20 years, I know Al. For whatever reason, the foggy history thinks we were screwed out of home field. The Cubs were not. I think the tragic (baseball-wise, anyway) history thinks Game 5 was to be played back in Chicago, but it wasn't. I'm surprised I didn't comment in the thread. I was at those 3 games. Worst sporting experience of my life. To this day, I can't stand the Padres.
I'm an NL fan, from back in the day when that actually meant something, and I pretty much always rooted for the NL team in the World Series every year. But not 1984. My only disappointment that year was that the Tigers took five games to end SD's dream.
I always tell my kids that “losing is what makes winning fun”. It gives winning meaning and depth. As I’ve gotten older though, the voracity with which I follow my lifelong teams during long periods of misery has decreased significantly. Because in order for my first point to hold true, there has to be some winning to enjoy. If not, I just can’t do it to myself. It takes a physical and mental toll to care so much, and allow one’s self to be so disappointed. I’m not talking about only watching when a team is dominant, but I’m a Chicago Bulls fan. That franchise has been committing organizational malpractice for at least a decade, and promoting Jim Boylen without a coaching search, then re-signing him after he proved to be no better than a high school gym teacher (no offense to HSGTs) was a signal to me that I couldn’t allow myself to care so much when the org itself obviously didn’t. They signed free agents to fill seats, not to build a cohesive team (Rajon Rondo, Dewayne Wade), BUT - fortunately - made their incompetence (or financial priorities) super transparent, at least to me. It made it easier to care less. Luckily for me as a Chicagoan, I was NOT also raised a Bears fan, but I’m close enough to notice that poor fanbase’s abject misery. I can’t tell if that is from organizational incompetence, bad economic decisions, bad personnel decisions (coaches/gms), desperation or a Tsunami that gathered each of them in her relentless, rising current and leveled Chicago football with the resultant, depressing stew.
TLDR: Losing is what makes winning feel so fucking amazing. But at some point, your personal physical and mental wellbeing has to be prioritized over your desire to appear a “die-hard”.
As long as Jerry Reisndorf owns the Bulls and White Sox, neither franchise will win. He got lucky with MJ and the 2005 Sox. Those fans are fucked.
100% this
lol I knew you were from Boston before I even read this. I bet losing for five years after 20 years of dominance feels “romantic”. Try losing for 35 with no rings ever! NOT AS ROMANTIC!
Piker. Try 60!
As a Lions fan, I could really relate to this one. Thank you!
Sigh. Go Mariners!
This was such a fantastic read! It reminded me of the social psychological theory of ‘fusion.’ This idea that peoples personalities ‘fuse’ with each other, or become closer to one unit/hive mind, when they experience extreme shared suffering. Especially when that suffering is towards a common goal.
There’s a couple psych investigations showing that sports fans from historically losing teams, feel that their team is more integral to their identity. A similar effect can be seen in the military, where the intense training periods full of shared pain and suffering, creates extremely bonded partnerships.
Misery loves company!
is it the dynasty i don’t like or the way they’re covered that i don’t like?
but as a fellow new england fan, i can’t complain really, can i
I feel a similar way. Sports, amongst other things, is a TV Drama. As long as the storylines don't feel repetitive, we want to see the best characters over and over again. The storyline of trying to beat the big-bad empire is what a lot of the most popular stories are about and is no different in sports. Also, when the Chiefs do finally get beat in the playoffs (weather this year or later) it will be all the more satisfying. A story with good protagonist and antagonist aren't compelling, but dynasties are great at both.
As a Cleveland Indians fan (yes, we all hate the name Guardians with a passion), a team that has not won in my 72 years, and agonizingly lost the World Series in extra innings of the 7th game TWICE, I believe you are confusing romance with the cruelest form of heartbreak.
Wait 'til next year!